This doesn't read the way you think it does for man. This is not encouraging, or hopeful for a man who's willing to be honest, open, clear, direct, is effortful, romantic.
All I read is that the young and beautiful women I want prefer somebody engaging, fun, unpredictable, somebody that makes you feel something, somebody's whose heart and attention you never know is fully yours.
Why should I be enticed to be the effortful romantic, specially knowing being there will mostly get me a woman whose maturity was achieved from giving herself over to aloof guys enough times to make her flip the switch? Some women surely prefer the romantic off the bat, but not most.
This article just makes me disappointed at you, at women. With a tone of grief over the fact dating while young could be simpler, healthier instead of what we wind up with - games of attention, dishonesty, façade - do you understand that many of the problems women complain about are just second order effects of the behavior they themselves reward?
I disagree. This can be viewed as great advice for men too. If you want a meaningful emotional relationship then make an effort to be the kind of person that attracts that kind of partner(self-work) and don’t bother trying to impress the women that the author described as “ just not ready. Or she’s not your person.”
Thats great advice for anyone dating. And to be clear, that doesn’t mean you can’t have a period in your life where you do mess around with the “wrong” types of people for you. Those can be learning experiences.
If the “young and beautiful women” you want, as you say, don’t want the qualities in a man that lead to emotionally stable relationships, then don’t date them! If you are interested in long-lasting, meaningful relationships, then the goal isn’t just to be as broadly appealing as possible to all woman. The goal is to be appealing to the right woman for you.
I feel like your disappointment with this article is that you want to just date as many woman as possible rather than find the right one. Which is fine, but to me this article is about filtering and not proliferating.
You overlook how common and widespread her observations are among young women. I have female friends, I spend time with them, I talk to them, and I see how they interact with men. I've witnessed them reject guys for being "too nice" or "treating me too well" I kid you not. My frustration isn't about wanting to date as many women as possible; it's about wanting to find a healthy partner authentically, which feels increasingly difficult. I often feel pressured to act like someone I'm not to capture or hold a woman's interest, as their attention often drifts toward men who are less consistent, aloof, or hot-and-cold, as she describes. I can mimic that behavior, but it’s exhausting and feels inauthentic, like I’m playing a role. Yet, it seems almost necessary to cater to what many young women seem to respond to. For clarity, I’m not some older guy chasing younger women either, I'm in my early tweenties.
Welcome to the red pill. It tastes bitter at the beginning and there is usually a phase of anger and feeling betrayed, especially if you speak about what you experienced, and get gaslighted for it. If you keep going you will learn to trust your own eyes more and will focus on becoming who you want to be, rather than focusing on how to find someone. Then someone great will find you when you least expect it.
On the topic of being sincere and carrying your heart on a sleeve. I do think it is a good thing, but it is easily confused with people pleasing nice guying. You do want to express your love to the person who has proven that she deserves it. If you get all lovey at anybody who looks great or triggers some emotional longing in you, that's not romantic but desperate. I've done it, didn't know better, not recommended.
"All I read is that the young and beautiful women I want prefer somebody [else]"
THEN WHY DO YOU WANT THEM? They are emotionally unavailable or unready, so they find someone who is the same.
If you are emotionally available, then find someone who is ALSO THAT WAY. Ironically, you are doing the very same thing you say the women are doing. You are pining over a "bad girl" who doesn't pick you.
"Young" women? Your love interest should be within a couple years of your own age and rarely any bit more.
Your "this doesn't read like you think it does for men" is embarrasing. Not everyone writing about women cares what men think of it. Your opinion is irrelevant. Women are not writing something just wondering what some random creepy guy might be thinking. Undertstand that when you read women's writing, you are stepping into WOMEN'S WORLD and you need to be respectful of that. You are on someone else's territory. Act like it.
Why do I want them? Because they're my age? And I seem to be forced to act a certain way in order to make them feel something and capture their attention? This is not about emotional availability, they're emotionally available all right, but not to boredom, consistency, directness. Lily manages to so elonquently outline exactly what girls my age reward and are attracted to, this is not some 'damaged' bad girl thing, this is a widespread thing - nice girls, sweet girls, girls that are still virgins, mature immature, at this age range they're attracted to excitement, fun, uncertainty, et cetera. Do you understand that? Are you in your early tweenties? Do you talk to women in this age range often? Do you see how they date, how they choose, see how they feel and for whom? It doesn't seem like it.
And if you were a young man you would understand this frustration - it doesn't come unfounded, it comes from enough bad experiences and the learning that one has to pretend to be someone they're not in order to be attractive.
regarding my 'embarrasing' statement. Don't be silly. This article is evidently relevant to young men alike women. Trust me this is more relevant than you know, this is not some one off opinion on the internet, this is quite a widespread sentiment and understanding and you fail to be in tune with it, probably because of your age.
You want to date women who are simply your age? There are plenty of women your age that other boys overlook. Go get em. Nope, you want "hot" when YOU are NOT hot.
You need to find your LOOKS-MATCH. Are you a 5? Then that's what you look for. Unless of course you'd like to admit that character is what matters which means you *could* end up with someone hot..except then you'll have to overhaul your own character to have a shot.
If the women you see aren't choosing dudes like you, then find different venues where women are looking for guys like you. Stop expecting women to get with you and date down. You are looking IN THE WRONG PLACES.
Imagine if some woman came here and said, "No rich guys will date me! Do you know how hardddd it is? They are attracted to a bunch of things I don't offer! It's unfair and they NEED TO CHANGE!11"
You would trip all over yourself to reply that she is just subpar and she needs to *aim lower*.
You. You need to aim lower. Or better yet, don't aim at all. You are not marriage material.
You said it. When these women are done with sleeping around with men who can't or won't treat them right; it is only then that they decide to want nice guys.
We learn how to love by watching our parents. When a parent is abusive, absent, or unpredictable, we think that’s what we want/need/deserve.
It can take years to unpack and unlearn this behaviour.
And because men are also damaged by that same parenting, relationships are mirrors.
I have had four serious relationships in my life. The first and second were abusive in different ways. They both withheld emotional support. The third was healing. The fourth one (much like the man described by the OP) is now my husband.
I will believe this when women start fucking the good men. Until then I will continue to hold back, act aloof one moment and loving the next. From what I have seen, even older women, even women in marriage don't reward the good men. Chivalry is dead and women killed it
Funnily enough this article is actually about women turning their attention away from guys like you. You shouldn't "be good" to get a reward from (or in your mind, laid by) women. Good guys are good because they just are, not for some ulterior motive. Maybe the reason you're offended is because you feel called out. Women respond to what they are surrounded by, they didn't kill chivalry, its just so uncommon nowadays that its unfamiliar and scary.
“It’s hard to say what exactly marks the shift where effort and emotional availability becomes attractive.” For me, it was when I realised that I was attaching to men as boys because I was still a maiden, and I crossed the threshold when I truly was done with the self-fuckery of settling for crumbs. And naturally, I just met someone who literally brought me a bread loaf on a date.
Pretty much no guys are nice. People are usually just confusing dweeby/sheltered with nice.
Physically hot bad boy? No thanks. Nice guy with a childlike understanding of the world? No thanks. Nice guy who is highly intelligent with an enthusiastic smile and a deep understanding of reality? YES. WHERE ARE THEY.
There are a few, but most men are just clueless and it makes them unattractive. They *get* to be oblivious as a result of their male status, and it's annoying to be around.
I love love loveeeeEEEE that my boyfriend is intentional and has never made me feel unsure or insecure about our relationship for even a minute ❤️
My one comment is that I think we need to stop perpetuating the idea that the nice guy is “boring.” Yes, I get what you mean, because the push-and-pull reward mechanism can be quite the exhilarating rush. But if it leaves you with a long face and without any plans that weekend… that’s pretty boring. I tell every one of my single friends that being with a wishy-washy “nonchalant” guy is MUCH more boring. Extremely boring. Even the incels in your comments are perpetuating the idea that women “settle for boring.” The reality is that it’s MUCH more exciting to be with the guy who plans surprise romantic dates and wants to take you out all the time. Those guys are exciting. Leave “wya?” where he belongs 🚮 YAWN.
I couldn’t agree more! The low effort hamsters wheel IS boring. And the butterflies we think are “exhilarating” is actually just a deregulated nervous system. I never meant to imply I think the stable men are boring, simply sharing the experience of coming out of unhealthy relationship dynamics into healthy dynamics.
And yeah I can’t with the incels in my comment section lolol
Once you've got the mix between making your feelings clear and not being suffocating, you're in a good position as a guy. Another key asset is to really like women
As a man who 2-3 three times a year for the last 15 years been told I’m a “wonderful guy” and make them feel “safe”. This doesn’t read as inspiring or hopeful at all. Quite the opposite. My experiences of repeated let down, I cannot keep trying for the sake of my sanity. Good for you for working it out but I’m done. As are many more hopeless romantics.
Let’s live stream about it. You can speak about effort & your own righteousness, and I can speak about maintaining positive alignment to your role and allowing God to do all things for you in the Almighty’s righteousness (Matt 6:33).
To the intentional men reading this, she’s only saying this because she’s either approaching or has hit “the wall”. Do not be a simp. Avoid women like this author and place your effort into virtuous women instead who are capable of love because women like this author are not capable of it. Your future wife will be happy to know that you gave your all to her and didn’t waste your time with degen women.
This doesn't read the way you think it does for man. This is not encouraging, or hopeful for a man who's willing to be honest, open, clear, direct, is effortful, romantic.
All I read is that the young and beautiful women I want prefer somebody engaging, fun, unpredictable, somebody that makes you feel something, somebody's whose heart and attention you never know is fully yours.
Why should I be enticed to be the effortful romantic, specially knowing being there will mostly get me a woman whose maturity was achieved from giving herself over to aloof guys enough times to make her flip the switch? Some women surely prefer the romantic off the bat, but not most.
This article just makes me disappointed at you, at women. With a tone of grief over the fact dating while young could be simpler, healthier instead of what we wind up with - games of attention, dishonesty, façade - do you understand that many of the problems women complain about are just second order effects of the behavior they themselves reward?
I disagree. This can be viewed as great advice for men too. If you want a meaningful emotional relationship then make an effort to be the kind of person that attracts that kind of partner(self-work) and don’t bother trying to impress the women that the author described as “ just not ready. Or she’s not your person.”
Thats great advice for anyone dating. And to be clear, that doesn’t mean you can’t have a period in your life where you do mess around with the “wrong” types of people for you. Those can be learning experiences.
If the “young and beautiful women” you want, as you say, don’t want the qualities in a man that lead to emotionally stable relationships, then don’t date them! If you are interested in long-lasting, meaningful relationships, then the goal isn’t just to be as broadly appealing as possible to all woman. The goal is to be appealing to the right woman for you.
I feel like your disappointment with this article is that you want to just date as many woman as possible rather than find the right one. Which is fine, but to me this article is about filtering and not proliferating.
And that’s on reading comprehension. Thank you Derrick 💫
You overlook how common and widespread her observations are among young women. I have female friends, I spend time with them, I talk to them, and I see how they interact with men. I've witnessed them reject guys for being "too nice" or "treating me too well" I kid you not. My frustration isn't about wanting to date as many women as possible; it's about wanting to find a healthy partner authentically, which feels increasingly difficult. I often feel pressured to act like someone I'm not to capture or hold a woman's interest, as their attention often drifts toward men who are less consistent, aloof, or hot-and-cold, as she describes. I can mimic that behavior, but it’s exhausting and feels inauthentic, like I’m playing a role. Yet, it seems almost necessary to cater to what many young women seem to respond to. For clarity, I’m not some older guy chasing younger women either, I'm in my early tweenties.
Welcome to the red pill. It tastes bitter at the beginning and there is usually a phase of anger and feeling betrayed, especially if you speak about what you experienced, and get gaslighted for it. If you keep going you will learn to trust your own eyes more and will focus on becoming who you want to be, rather than focusing on how to find someone. Then someone great will find you when you least expect it.
On the topic of being sincere and carrying your heart on a sleeve. I do think it is a good thing, but it is easily confused with people pleasing nice guying. You do want to express your love to the person who has proven that she deserves it. If you get all lovey at anybody who looks great or triggers some emotional longing in you, that's not romantic but desperate. I've done it, didn't know better, not recommended.
"All I read is that the young and beautiful women I want prefer somebody [else]"
THEN WHY DO YOU WANT THEM? They are emotionally unavailable or unready, so they find someone who is the same.
If you are emotionally available, then find someone who is ALSO THAT WAY. Ironically, you are doing the very same thing you say the women are doing. You are pining over a "bad girl" who doesn't pick you.
"Young" women? Your love interest should be within a couple years of your own age and rarely any bit more.
Your "this doesn't read like you think it does for men" is embarrasing. Not everyone writing about women cares what men think of it. Your opinion is irrelevant. Women are not writing something just wondering what some random creepy guy might be thinking. Undertstand that when you read women's writing, you are stepping into WOMEN'S WORLD and you need to be respectful of that. You are on someone else's territory. Act like it.
This! 🎯
Why do I want them? Because they're my age? And I seem to be forced to act a certain way in order to make them feel something and capture their attention? This is not about emotional availability, they're emotionally available all right, but not to boredom, consistency, directness. Lily manages to so elonquently outline exactly what girls my age reward and are attracted to, this is not some 'damaged' bad girl thing, this is a widespread thing - nice girls, sweet girls, girls that are still virgins, mature immature, at this age range they're attracted to excitement, fun, uncertainty, et cetera. Do you understand that? Are you in your early tweenties? Do you talk to women in this age range often? Do you see how they date, how they choose, see how they feel and for whom? It doesn't seem like it.
And if you were a young man you would understand this frustration - it doesn't come unfounded, it comes from enough bad experiences and the learning that one has to pretend to be someone they're not in order to be attractive.
regarding my 'embarrasing' statement. Don't be silly. This article is evidently relevant to young men alike women. Trust me this is more relevant than you know, this is not some one off opinion on the internet, this is quite a widespread sentiment and understanding and you fail to be in tune with it, probably because of your age.
You want to date women who are simply your age? There are plenty of women your age that other boys overlook. Go get em. Nope, you want "hot" when YOU are NOT hot.
You need to find your LOOKS-MATCH. Are you a 5? Then that's what you look for. Unless of course you'd like to admit that character is what matters which means you *could* end up with someone hot..except then you'll have to overhaul your own character to have a shot.
If the women you see aren't choosing dudes like you, then find different venues where women are looking for guys like you. Stop expecting women to get with you and date down. You are looking IN THE WRONG PLACES.
Imagine if some woman came here and said, "No rich guys will date me! Do you know how hardddd it is? They are attracted to a bunch of things I don't offer! It's unfair and they NEED TO CHANGE!11"
You would trip all over yourself to reply that she is just subpar and she needs to *aim lower*.
You. You need to aim lower. Or better yet, don't aim at all. You are not marriage material.
Basically this, lol. Life isn't fair and often doesn't make sense but the incentive structure here is pretty laid out.
You said it. When these women are done with sleeping around with men who can't or won't treat them right; it is only then that they decide to want nice guys.
We learn how to love by watching our parents. When a parent is abusive, absent, or unpredictable, we think that’s what we want/need/deserve.
It can take years to unpack and unlearn this behaviour.
And because men are also damaged by that same parenting, relationships are mirrors.
I have had four serious relationships in my life. The first and second were abusive in different ways. They both withheld emotional support. The third was healing. The fourth one (much like the man described by the OP) is now my husband.
It took me many years to get it right.
Not my fault. Or theirs.
Your date sounds like green flags all around. So happy for you!
he’s a sweetie :) thank you for reading!
I will believe this when women start fucking the good men. Until then I will continue to hold back, act aloof one moment and loving the next. From what I have seen, even older women, even women in marriage don't reward the good men. Chivalry is dead and women killed it
Dude what?
Funnily enough this article is actually about women turning their attention away from guys like you. You shouldn't "be good" to get a reward from (or in your mind, laid by) women. Good guys are good because they just are, not for some ulterior motive. Maybe the reason you're offended is because you feel called out. Women respond to what they are surrounded by, they didn't kill chivalry, its just so uncommon nowadays that its unfamiliar and scary.
Yes!! We’re tired!!
Exhausted !
AMAZING PIECE. Could quote every other line.
“It’s hard to say what exactly marks the shift where effort and emotional availability becomes attractive.” For me, it was when I realised that I was attaching to men as boys because I was still a maiden, and I crossed the threshold when I truly was done with the self-fuckery of settling for crumbs. And naturally, I just met someone who literally brought me a bread loaf on a date.
Get yourself a man who brings a whole ass loaf!!! Love this for you and thank you for reading
Pretty much no guys are nice. People are usually just confusing dweeby/sheltered with nice.
Physically hot bad boy? No thanks. Nice guy with a childlike understanding of the world? No thanks. Nice guy who is highly intelligent with an enthusiastic smile and a deep understanding of reality? YES. WHERE ARE THEY.
There are a few, but most men are just clueless and it makes them unattractive. They *get* to be oblivious as a result of their male status, and it's annoying to be around.
I love love loveeeeEEEE that my boyfriend is intentional and has never made me feel unsure or insecure about our relationship for even a minute ❤️
My one comment is that I think we need to stop perpetuating the idea that the nice guy is “boring.” Yes, I get what you mean, because the push-and-pull reward mechanism can be quite the exhilarating rush. But if it leaves you with a long face and without any plans that weekend… that’s pretty boring. I tell every one of my single friends that being with a wishy-washy “nonchalant” guy is MUCH more boring. Extremely boring. Even the incels in your comments are perpetuating the idea that women “settle for boring.” The reality is that it’s MUCH more exciting to be with the guy who plans surprise romantic dates and wants to take you out all the time. Those guys are exciting. Leave “wya?” where he belongs 🚮 YAWN.
I couldn’t agree more! The low effort hamsters wheel IS boring. And the butterflies we think are “exhilarating” is actually just a deregulated nervous system. I never meant to imply I think the stable men are boring, simply sharing the experience of coming out of unhealthy relationship dynamics into healthy dynamics.
And yeah I can’t with the incels in my comment section lolol
This is wonderful ! I got teary-eyed reading this xx
Aw! Thanks Molly ❤️❤️
Preach! 🙌🏻
🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
I feel seen.
❤️❤️❤️
You haven't had much success with women, have you?
He left this reply on every single comment. Lord have mercy
Some people need to get off the internet and learn how to connect with others. Good lord.
Being massively uncool and romantic, I could never play it cool anyway. But it's encouraging to feel it eventually pays off.
It’s cool to care!
Once you've got the mix between making your feelings clear and not being suffocating, you're in a good position as a guy. Another key asset is to really like women
This is the best thing I've read all week. Thank you, Lily, for highlighting everything I have struggled to! 🤍
Thank you Phoebe! Lots of love xx
You need help.
I echo this statement
Thrice echoed. It’s like ‘reply to me, damn you!!!’
Deeply concerning.
As a man who 2-3 three times a year for the last 15 years been told I’m a “wonderful guy” and make them feel “safe”. This doesn’t read as inspiring or hopeful at all. Quite the opposite. My experiences of repeated let down, I cannot keep trying for the sake of my sanity. Good for you for working it out but I’m done. As are many more hopeless romantics.
I recommend dating Christian women. They are intentional.
seems like you were REALLY done bad by Chad and Tyrone. thoughts and prayers /:
Like us too!
Angry incels like being fun to laugh at or else they wouldn't be so fun to laugh at.
Love this per usual. But god dammnit I got quoted 😂
HAHAHA IM SORRY I LOVE YOU
You will remain hollow without god.
Oh!
Let’s live stream about it. You can speak about effort & your own righteousness, and I can speak about maintaining positive alignment to your role and allowing God to do all things for you in the Almighty’s righteousness (Matt 6:33).
lily are you gonna do the live stream?
What the actual fuck
HAHAHAHAH
To the intentional men reading this, she’s only saying this because she’s either approaching or has hit “the wall”. Do not be a simp. Avoid women like this author and place your effort into virtuous women instead who are capable of love because women like this author are not capable of it. Your future wife will be happy to know that you gave your all to her and didn’t waste your time with degen women.